Comments on: Looking Through The Eyes of The Unchurched http://www.bigisthenewsmall.com/2009/10/02/looking-through-the-eyes-of-the-unchurched/ dream BIG. think BIGGER. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:48:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: FreshAmericanBison.com http://www.bigisthenewsmall.com/2009/10/02/looking-through-the-eyes-of-the-unchurched/#comment-7058 FreshAmericanBison.com Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:05:59 +0000 http://bigisthenewsmall.com/?p=3341#comment-7058 If God is visible in your service, it will be irrelevant whether it is "seeker" oriented. People are seeking God. If they can see him, they will be interested. In the first place, a 22 year old hip hop fan will probably not drop in the Church of The Servant's ultra conservative service, and so forth. If God is visible in your service, it will be irrelevant whether it is “seeker” oriented. People are seeking God. If they can see him, they will be interested. In the first place, a 22 year old hip hop fan will probably not drop in the Church of The Servant’s ultra conservative service, and so forth.

]]> By: synchrony http://www.bigisthenewsmall.com/2009/10/02/looking-through-the-eyes-of-the-unchurched/#comment-7057 synchrony Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:27:26 +0000 http://bigisthenewsmall.com/?p=3341#comment-7057 Worship services should be designed for worshipers of God. If you are going to have a "seeker" service, then design it for seekers. You need either one or the other or both. Trying to mix the two doesn't make any sense. It's the difference between teaching (growing spiritually) and evangelism (the great commission). Somewhere along the way we started singing "I Am Saved by the Blood of the Lamb" followed by a fire and brimstone sermon and a 2 hour alter call. That confuses a group. Are you saved or do you need to be saved? Things can get so mixed up. Focusing on one thing at a time takes more time, effort and money, something that most churches just don't have. I don't know what the answer is, but I know that trying to have meaningful worship for believers and reaching seekers at the same time will leave both groups lacking quality and clarity. Worship services should be designed for worshipers of God. If you are going to have a “seeker” service, then design it for seekers. You need either one or the other or both. Trying to mix the two doesn’t make any sense. It’s the difference between teaching (growing spiritually) and evangelism (the great commission). Somewhere along the way we started singing “I Am Saved by the Blood of the Lamb” followed by a fire and brimstone sermon and a 2 hour alter call. That confuses a group. Are you saved or do you need to be saved? Things can get so mixed up. Focusing on one thing at a time takes more time, effort and money, something that most churches just don’t have. I don’t know what the answer is, but I know that trying to have meaningful worship for believers and reaching seekers at the same time will leave both groups lacking quality and clarity.

]]> By: Links of the Week « My World http://www.bigisthenewsmall.com/2009/10/02/looking-through-the-eyes-of-the-unchurched/#comment-7056 Links of the Week « My World Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:20:07 +0000 http://bigisthenewsmall.com/?p=3341#comment-7056 [...] Williams on Looking through the eyes of the unchurched. I think he is right, when an unchurched person comes to church, they are looking for something [...]

[...] Williams on Looking through the eyes of the unchurched. I think he is right, when an unchurched person comes to church, they are looking for something [...]

]]> By: Hulk http://www.bigisthenewsmall.com/2009/10/02/looking-through-the-eyes-of-the-unchurched/#comment-7055 Hulk Tue, 06 Oct 2009 02:28:14 +0000 http://bigisthenewsmall.com/?p=3341#comment-7055 Why are the 'unchurched' coming to 'church'? What do you think they're looking for? Good modern music? old fashioned music? good preaching? good singing? Artistic expression? Love. It's love. Everything else is a distraction. Love is the one thing that is meant to communicate to people that these are true disciples. That's how you're meant to be recognised. If you love and don't have good music then people will return. If you love and have crap preaching, then people will return. Love doesn't just happen on Sundays, it's there all the time. Mask wearing and pretense happens on Sundays — people see through that. People aren't looking to meet with people that pretend to have it all together. They want to see how love and grace work in the lives of people just like them - broken and confused. Church doesn't allow that. That's why church attendance is no longer seen as relevant - because it's not. Why are the ‘unchurched’ coming to ‘church’?

What do you think they’re looking for?
Good modern music? old fashioned music? good preaching? good singing? Artistic expression?

Love. It’s love. Everything else is a distraction.

Love is the one thing that is meant to communicate to people that these are true disciples. That’s how you’re meant to be recognised.

If you love and don’t have good music then people will return.

If you love and have crap preaching, then people will return.

Love doesn’t just happen on Sundays, it’s there all the time. Mask wearing and pretense happens on Sundays — people see through that.

People aren’t looking to meet with people that pretend to have it all together. They want to see how love and grace work in the lives of people just like them – broken and confused.

Church doesn’t allow that. That’s why church attendance is no longer seen as relevant – because it’s not.

]]> By: pastorant http://www.bigisthenewsmall.com/2009/10/02/looking-through-the-eyes-of-the-unchurched/#comment-7054 pastorant Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:01:51 +0000 http://bigisthenewsmall.com/?p=3341#comment-7054 Hey Scott, I'm pickin up what your puttin down my Brother! People come to church seeking answers and healing to deep seated issues that exist within all of us. If we, as a body of Believers intentionally seek to meet those needs, answer the real questions that they have as we intro them to Christ, and not necessarily Christians, I don't believe the music, length of service, or any other tag on makes a whole lot of difference. The un-Churched want love and acceptance. They want an environment that's safe enough for them to begin the process of investigating Christ. I believe if they've come, then the Holy Spirit has already begun His ministry of conviction and drawing a person to Himself. We just gotta make sure we don't get in the way my Brother. So pump the music, set the cultural vibe, but lift up Jesus, and He'll doing the drawing. Great discussion piece...i'm grappling with the same questions as we seek to launch our new church in Northern, Va. Brother, that's my two and a half cents...for whatever that's worth. Pastor Ant Hey Scott, I’m pickin up what your puttin down my Brother! People come to church seeking answers and healing to deep seated issues that exist within all of us. If we, as a body of Believers intentionally seek to meet those needs, answer the real questions that they have as we intro them to Christ, and not necessarily Christians, I don’t believe the music, length of service, or any other tag on makes a whole lot of difference. The un-Churched want love and acceptance. They want an environment that’s safe enough for them to begin the process of investigating Christ. I believe if they’ve come, then the Holy Spirit has already begun His ministry of conviction and drawing a person to Himself. We just gotta make sure we don’t get in the way my Brother. So pump the music, set the cultural vibe, but lift up Jesus, and He’ll doing the drawing. Great discussion piece…i’m grappling with the same questions as we seek to launch our new church in Northern, Va.

Brother, that’s my two and a half cents…for whatever that’s worth.

Pastor Ant

]]> By: Avery http://www.bigisthenewsmall.com/2009/10/02/looking-through-the-eyes-of-the-unchurched/#comment-7053 Avery Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:37:34 +0000 http://bigisthenewsmall.com/?p=3341#comment-7053 You can polish a turd ... and pretty it up, but when people accept it... there will always be that faint odor of , well crap... and it will leave the acceptee disillusioned... You don't have to polish a diamond, just cut it... people already want it... I know right, wierd comment ... but think about it... You can polish a turd … and pretty it up, but when people accept it… there will always be that faint odor of , well crap… and it will leave the acceptee disillusioned…

You don’t have to polish a diamond, just cut it… people already want it…

I know right, wierd comment … but think about it…

]]> By: mmayso http://www.bigisthenewsmall.com/2009/10/02/looking-through-the-eyes-of-the-unchurched/#comment-7052 mmayso Sun, 04 Oct 2009 20:25:19 +0000 http://bigisthenewsmall.com/?p=3341#comment-7052 Great posting Scott: My personal opionion from experience is that people are looking to hear from God. They don't know what its about, but they are expecting a God that punishes and can tell them what to do so they can follow until there issues are resolved. (Just keeping it real here)... I firmly believe that it is up to everyone (we are all called) to practice the two greatest commands... You shall love the Lord your God with all your mind, with all your heart with all your strength (why? because if you truly love God you walk in the love of God which is what they are missing when they come.) the second, you shall love your neighbor as you love yourself (this is by far the greatest commandment to follow, because not everyone loves themself so how are they going to show love to anyone else). But if we realize that we are God's maximum creation and learn to love ourselve, respect ourselve and treat ourselves as belonging to God and not us, then again we can walk in God's love and not judge what anyone else has done or not done. When someone comes for the first time to a church, they are looking for a change in their life and the life of their family. If we hide what is different or say we can't be too churchy, we are missing out in what God wants to do when He says "come just as you are". They are looking to be heard, loved and not judge. They are looking for the fish, and it is our job to give them the fish and also teach them how to catch it. I always say, just let the Holy Spirit move, say and do whatever He wants. There is a talent that we all have and must use inside where God is the center and outside where we talk their language and do whatever it takes. Inside the Church, God's House, God is expecting to move as He wills. Outside in the street and else where God is expecting us to move in however way we must and use everything in the world (in line with His word), because everything is with Him, by Him and for Him. Pastor Martha Great posting Scott:

My personal opionion from experience is that people are looking to hear from God. They don’t know what its about, but they are expecting a God that punishes and can tell them what to do so they can follow until there issues are resolved. (Just keeping it real here)… I firmly believe that it is up to everyone (we are all called) to practice the two greatest commands… You shall love the Lord your God with all your mind, with all your heart with all your strength (why? because if you truly love God you walk in the love of God which is what they are missing when they come.) the second, you shall love your neighbor as you love yourself (this is by far the greatest commandment to follow, because not everyone loves themself so how are they going to show love to anyone else). But if we realize that we are God’s maximum creation and learn to love ourselve, respect ourselve and treat ourselves as belonging to God and not us, then again we can walk in God’s love and not judge what anyone else has done or not done. When someone comes for the first time to a church, they are looking for a change in their life and the life of their family. If we hide what is different or say we can’t be too churchy, we are missing out in what God wants to do when He says “come just as you are”. They are looking to be heard, loved and not judge. They are looking for the fish, and it is our job to give them the fish and also teach them how to catch it. I always say, just let the Holy Spirit move, say and do whatever He wants. There is a talent that we all have and must use inside where God is the center and outside where we talk their language and do whatever it takes. Inside the Church, God’s House, God is expecting to move as He wills. Outside in the street and else where God is expecting us to move in however way we must and use everything in the world (in line with His word), because everything is with Him, by Him and for Him.
Pastor Martha

]]> By: jimmy paravane http://www.bigisthenewsmall.com/2009/10/02/looking-through-the-eyes-of-the-unchurched/#comment-7051 jimmy paravane Sun, 04 Oct 2009 13:42:35 +0000 http://bigisthenewsmall.com/?p=3341#comment-7051 I don't know if I can claim to see through the eyes of the unchurched anymore than most of you. Been to a lot of churches. The common factor for me is never whether the environment is comfortable or confrontational. Sorry, that's just the show. I hate to pick on LC again, but you guys have turned the uncomfortable confrontation with the scripture into an art form of comfort. I can go to any LC campus in OKC and be confronted with the gospel, all while eating popcorn or a bag of chips, drinking soda or a cup of coffee, watching the mini-concert and the movie that confronts me with the gospel, and never even have a single person talk to me. Unless I approach them. I've been a first-timer in every LC campus in the OKC area. Then again, my "invites" are never by someone I know in "RL". I'm guessing unlike most of the unchurched or "first time" attendees. So maybe that's the missing ingredient. You need to actually know an alien, have developed some relationship with him or her, before you show up at the mothership. Or it turns into an "uncomfortable confrontation" for everyone involved. (grin) And you should know that I had to work very very very hard to resist temptation on commenting on some of the comments here. But come on! There's a lot of juicy alien phrases in here that the "unchurched" will not get at all! Fortunately, they'll probably never read them either. (grin) Sorry about picking on LC again, Scott. All I can fall back on here is the 800lb. gorilla thingy. You better be getting some kinda credit for putting up with me the most. (grin) I don’t know if I can claim to see through the eyes of the unchurched anymore than most of you. Been to a lot of churches. The common factor for me is never whether the environment is comfortable or confrontational. Sorry, that’s just the show. I hate to pick on LC again, but you guys have turned the uncomfortable confrontation with the scripture into an art form of comfort. I can go to any LC campus in OKC and be confronted with the gospel, all while eating popcorn or a bag of chips, drinking soda or a cup of coffee, watching the mini-concert and the movie that confronts me with the gospel, and never even have a single person talk to me. Unless I approach them. I’ve been a first-timer in every LC campus in the OKC area.
Then again, my “invites” are never by someone I know in “RL”. I’m guessing unlike most of the unchurched or “first time” attendees. So maybe that’s the missing ingredient. You need to actually know an alien, have developed some relationship with him or her, before you show up at the mothership. Or it turns into an “uncomfortable confrontation” for everyone involved. (grin)
And you should know that I had to work very very very hard to resist temptation on commenting on some of the comments here. But come on! There’s a lot of juicy alien phrases in here that the “unchurched” will not get at all! Fortunately, they’ll probably never read them either. (grin)
Sorry about picking on LC again, Scott. All I can fall back on here is the 800lb. gorilla thingy. You better be getting some kinda credit for putting up with me the most. (grin)

]]> By: Derrick Henslee http://www.bigisthenewsmall.com/2009/10/02/looking-through-the-eyes-of-the-unchurched/#comment-7050 Derrick Henslee Sun, 04 Oct 2009 04:17:08 +0000 http://bigisthenewsmall.com/?p=3341#comment-7050 I feel that we have an obligation to the lost to do everything possible, short of sinning to reach them. When we go to another country for missions, we study their culture, dress like them, listen to their songs, and participate in their traditions. Living here in the states, we often feel that since the other guy looks like me we don't need to apply this same process. I think we have to consider the lost when planning our services. We don't need to create unintentional barriers for them, and also we need to utilize any means necessary to let them know that their questions about God and life are valid. Some use secular music, or secular movie clips to relate to the lost. This is a proven method to help tear down walls that the enemy has erected in that person's heart. Meet the lost where they are, and don't expect them to accept our man-made vernacular and Christian bubbles. Many of us that have a problem with secular elements in church often listen to secular music in the car, watch secular tv, secular sports shows, and secular movies. WE are the church...not a building. Our focus should be to love Jesus, be led by the Spirit, love the lost, and encourage others in the Lord. Sorry this was so long...my bad...my bad. I feel that we have an obligation to the lost to do everything possible, short of sinning to reach them. When we go to another country for missions, we study their culture, dress like them, listen to their songs, and participate in their traditions. Living here in the states, we often feel that since the other guy looks like me we don’t need to apply this same process.

I think we have to consider the lost when planning our services. We don’t need to create unintentional barriers for them, and also we need to utilize any means necessary to let them know that their questions about God and life are valid.

Some use secular music, or secular movie clips to relate to the lost. This is a proven method to help tear down walls that the enemy has erected in that person’s heart. Meet the lost where they are, and don’t expect them to accept our man-made vernacular and Christian bubbles.

Many of us that have a problem with secular elements in church often listen to secular music in the car, watch secular tv, secular sports shows, and secular movies. WE are the church…not a building. Our focus should be to love Jesus, be led by the Spirit, love the lost, and encourage others in the Lord.

Sorry this was so long…my bad…my bad.

]]> By: jskogerboe http://www.bigisthenewsmall.com/2009/10/02/looking-through-the-eyes-of-the-unchurched/#comment-7049 jskogerboe Sun, 04 Oct 2009 04:04:58 +0000 http://bigisthenewsmall.com/?p=3341#comment-7049 Whoah - quick but important follow-up to the post above... I hope I didn't just insult anyone with the phrase "disguising your worship with secular music." My point was simply that I think secular music isn't necessary for unchurched folk to feel comfortable. They are expecting some form of church music, after all. Nothing wrong with some secular stuff as part of the mix. Besides, our Team just opened a service a week ago blending a U2 intro cover with one of our worship songs. It was tasty, fun, beautiful, majestic, and a facet of the freedom we have to worship with joy. So there you go. :-) Whoah – quick but important follow-up to the post above…

I hope I didn’t just insult anyone with the phrase “disguising your worship with secular music.” My point was simply that I think secular music isn’t necessary for unchurched folk to feel comfortable. They are expecting some form of church music, after all. Nothing wrong with some secular stuff as part of the mix.

Besides, our Team just opened a service a week ago blending a U2 intro cover with one of our worship songs. It was tasty, fun, beautiful, majestic, and a facet of the freedom we have to worship with joy. So there you go. :-)

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