Real Talk… Roethlisberger & Cussing Pastors

Thanks for the oppty, Pastor Scott.

With my Micah 6:8 lens (I use it daily anyhow but especially as it relates to my political discussions) I have to say that we have a different view in this country of transgressions by men of color vs. non-coloreds. It is well documented the extent to which our news media is biased as it relates to “acting up”. Let’s leave Tiger out of this – let’s just look at athletes in the NFL – I can name more than 5 cases where players of color have been accused of crimes and tried in the media before they were actually charged and believe me – in all cases they were charged. Ben, on the other hand, is not being charged (in a court) and getting a rather kid glove treatment from league and the kicker – the crime he allegedly committed against a woman is being downplayed in a major way. There are players who have had indefinite suspensions for carrying a gun. Huh?

It is sort of the question you raised a few weeks back about “all sin not being equal”. While we all can agree that all sin separates us from God – we know that consequences can be a subjective topic. Same goes here.

As for pastors that use cuss words… this one is tricky. On one hand – it just seems odd. I am a recovering potty mouth. Stil have flare ups. So I get the human and there are slips yadda yadda yadda. However, I’ve found that in my quest to clean up my act – my heart has been cleansed of the need, desire -not sure the exact word, but I cuss a whole lot less the more I am in the word of God. Period. That’s me. I just don’t get a Pastor that regularly does it.

Man – that almost felt therapeutic. Have a blessed day and weekend!

Re: #1. It takes 2 to tango. Why do we as a society IMMEDIATELY believe the girl? She is an adult, who made a bad choice, then felt bad about it and decided to make Ben Roethlisberger’s life miserable. I’m fine with his suspension, but I think we should check her motives.

Re: #2. I don’t think it is necessary. There are THOUSANDS of words in the English language, and we have 7 (-ish?) that have a shocking reaction. Use some of the 10,000 others – see what reaction that will get ya!

And, I like Real Talk. I have to check my tongue A LOT as I am very opinionated and sometimes don’t have the “popular” or “Politically correct” view point! Thanks, Scott!

Can’t touch number one, don’t know anything about it.

Number two though…

It is about the heart. If the pastor is doing it for shock effect, I would have to ask “Why?!” If it is something he is struggling to overcome as he is walking with God, awesome.

Either or, God’s grace is for him as much as any of us. One thing I do not do anymore, and never will, is to hold someone up on a pedestal because of a title (“Pastor”). But I will love you with all my heart, as Jesus has loved me, no matter what.

p.s. I talked about my own struggle with cussing last Dec. – http://bit.ly/9qFt0W

I believe Ben’s suspension was sufficient. He obviously has some issues that must be addressed. Although he wasn’t charged with anything, he shouldn’t have been in the situation. Tiger’s situation was different but just as bad because he has damaged his family. I am hoping for redemption for both.

I am not for the cussing pastor. There are plenty of adjectives in the English language that can be used to make a point.

#1: I’m with Kevin. If he was a normal Joe would he have received the same treatment (officers on scene asking for autographs and getting their pictures taken with him – allowing the scene to be messed up as they did)? I wasn’t there but I lean towards solid investigation without bias for celeb. I read the police report and it’s some pretty grim stuff.

#2: I read a post just yesterday dealing with hate, from the perspective that hate is something good *christians* aren’t supposed to do so we just dismiss our feelings and pretend to not hate. But, of course since things buried alive always come back out of the ground, it’s a trap that we walk willing into. We need to take the true heart that we have to God and tell Him what’s really going on so we can hear His words to us on that level (ie. I really hate . . . but I don’t want to let go of that hate . . .). I think the same thing applies to cussing (pastor or not): when we just pretend, we’re taking our true selves to God and we won’t be open to hearing his counsel.

Good stuff Scott – I also like the moleskin pics

I don’t really have anyting useful to add to the first topic. I don’t really keep up with most sports until playoffs and I try to stay as far away from celebrity “news” as I can get.

Your second topic, however, has always seemed interesting to me. Not necessarily pastors swearing, but just the concept of swear words in general.

I’ve never understood how one arrangement of letters can be more offensive than any other. If it’s the intent behind the word, then why are any of the alternatives any more acceptable (i.e. “the A word” vs. “butt” or even “rear end”)? And if it’s the word itself, then why is it alright to use “the A word” in reference to a donkey, but not in reference to your rear end, or even to a friend (who may be acting like a stubborn donkey or a rear end). I just can’t wrap my head around how someone decides that one particular word is just too awful to be said in polite company, let alone how an entire culture could follow along with that decision.

That being said, I do my best not to swear because I know some people do find it offensive (even if I don’t understand why).

More specifically on the topic of pastors, it’s kind of a toss up for me. Are they doing to to seem more down to earth, or is it something they just struggle with and lose control of from time to time? Are they going to bring more people in because they seem more approachable the the stereotypical “thee and thou” pastors or will they push people away because people don’t see that as being good Christian behavior? I really have no idea. Personally, I won’t be offended if the occasional cuss word slips in, but it might be a problem if the sermons start to sound like an episode of the Sopranos.

Sorry for the novella. I’ve put way too much thought into this topic over the years and never really gotten anywhere with it.

Scott, great segment to bring to the blog.

As for my opinions:

#1. Tiger’s and Ben’s situations, while both dealing with sexual misconduct or the alligation of such, differ. Yes they are public figures, yes the serve(d) as role models but the severity of Big Ben’s aligations would serve to be, in my opinion, more of a detriment. From a societal stand point mutual consent is much differnt then rape because of the violent and delinquent contexts. However, being that they are aligations, he is innocent until proven guilty. To be punished before proof of findings to the contrary would be ill-advised. However, for his social conduct I think his suspension terms are well-suited. If he goes into the program offered by Goodell he can knock 2 games off the suspension. That gives him 12 games to play. Very rare is it that a team wins 10 games and doesn’t go into the playoffs. This serves as a good wake up call to Ben that what he does off feild has consequences to both he and his team.

#2. As for the cussing pastors here are my thoughts. Eph. 4:29 says no corrupt communication. From my understanding corrupt has the sense of rotten, poor quality, bad. Realistically these are subjective words. What is a curse word for us would have had no significant meaning to Paul (pretending he didn’t have the gift of languages). With that said, while those words are subjective and set by our culture; we know the intent and meaning behind them. For us to say that red was something other than red, knowing that it is red, yet pretending it was blue doesn’t change the trueth that it is red. Cuss words fall under the corrupt communication category so for me, I refrain, even though I think it would emphasis my point at times. But to be real for a second, how many times do think the “real” word yet say “stink” or “freak’n” or “darnit?” Same heart behind it just a different orientation of the letters. Thats why I try not to blast pastors who cuss, I’m too busy taking care of my own beam.

Real talk. Love it.
1. Big Ben, did he get is easy? Yup I think so. Big profile position and the way Roger Godell is running the NFL Character is a big deal, he isn’t living up t that right now, I’m glad that character stands for something these days. (Geeze)
Tiger, on the other hand is a sport all by himself, everything is reflective of him, I think he is handling correctly now, not back then, but now.

2. Cussin Pastors. Cussing Christians. How bout that. It’s a choice and reflection of the heart I think, a reflection of daily talk and daily lifestyle, it spills over on the stage, I don;t think it’s cool OR ok, I certainly don;t think they even realize it most times because again, they probably do it everyday like normal behavior. IF I were on the teams of these leaders I’d encourage my leader to try different words.
Real talk. Over and out.
M_

In regards to #2, I wouldn’t say credibility is lost by any means (by pastor’s cussing). If we did that, we’d have to apply it to Paul (Phil 3:8), Elijah (1 Kings 18:27) and likely lots of stuff from Ezekiel and other prophets.

Words are words. What’s offensive, and worthy of MUCH conviction is actual cursing. It’s damning to look at some one in ernest and say “You are an idiot” (whereas my use of “damn” isn’t).

Personally, you will rarely hear me cuss (I’ve done it for emphasis, as Paul does above however) but it doesn’t stem from it being a “sin” issue; rather, it stems from that fact that (a) I see no real reason to forcible offend the large portion of the population that finds such words offensive and (b) I’m grown now and see no reason to use the informal talk of a youth, particularly in the mostly formal settings of adulthood. In some settings, (a) and (b) might not be issues (for example, as a missionary in South Africa I’ve been working with many English speaking Christians who regularly use “cuss” words not acceptable in the midwest — it was a surprise to hear the first few times but not anymore, and even more importantly, there is no reason to think any less of them as there culture doesn’t find such words offensive).

Anyways, 2cents from an M who used to live in OK but is on the other side of the globe now.

I want to say that the writer of this blog also wrote for streamingfaith about segragation in the churchs. I will have to say that my church is intagrated and we our like this country a melting pot for every one who desires the love of God. So when reashering your articles look to Yuma and there churchs the majority of them are integrated. So thenks for a heartfelt discussion and have a nice day

I know nothing about No. 1

No. 2 I got saved going into prison God delivered me from cussing in an instant. I would tell other “christian inmates” that cussing is a lack of vocabulary. Meaning don’t make yourself look so stupid as to only know a few words and use them over and over, Pastor’s know better, why would you want to influence your flock to degrade themselves. Check your heart rebellion and pride causes us to do such juvenile things!!! God is all about GOOD!!!!! My answer is a definite no, Pastor’s should not cuss!!!!